1 00:00:00,150 --> 00:00:08,850 Jordan: Welcome, everyone. Today, we are talking to Thomas Sciarrino, the Director of Instructional Technology and Media Services at Muhlenberg College. [* music plays *] 2 00:00:08,850 --> 00:00:17,520 Thomas, thank you so much for joining us today. Thomas: Thank you for having me. 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:30,500 It's a pleasure. Jordan: So what we're going to talk about today is just a part of what you do in your job, you are a man of many hats in the department. 4 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:36,610 But what we're really interested in knowing a little bit more about is how classroom design and online and 5 00:00:36,610 --> 00:00:42,940 digital learning might intersect at Muhlenberg over the next few semesters or just as, you know, in the future. Thomas: sure. 6 00:00:42,940 --> 00:00:51,310 Jordan: So why don't we start with just, sort of, an understanding of what is classroom design? And why do we bother designing classrooms? 7 00:00:51,310 --> 00:00:58,300 Thomas: I think that is the the most important question, the "why we design". And that influences, at Muhlenberg, what we design. 8 00:00:58,300 --> 00:01:04,090 So the design process for us starts with conversations. 9 00:01:04,090 --> 00:01:07,450 Muhlenberg is a very involved community, 10 00:01:07,450 --> 00:01:15,940 so we reach out often to the end users of the space and start talking about the ways they want to use those spaces. 11 00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:18,100 And that will help us design. 12 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:28,390 I'm of the mind where I never want to force technology down someone's throat or make sure that they're using that technology in a certain way. 13 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:33,850 I offer them solutions. So what is classroom design? 14 00:01:33,850 --> 00:01:40,270 I think that is discipline specific. We don't have a universal design on this campus. 15 00:01:40,270 --> 00:01:48,550 We try to meet with as many folks as we can that are using those individual spaces to influence the design that we have. 16 00:01:48,550 --> 00:01:52,570 Jordan: So you mentioned a little bit about process there and that it starts with a conversation 17 00:01:52,570 --> 00:01:59,630 between you and and possibly a department and that there's no universal [classroom] design at Muhlenberg. 18 00:01:59,630 --> 00:02:03,830 But way beyond that initial conversation is the process of designing a classroom. 19 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:10,490 Are there standard things that even though there isn't a universal design, are there standard things we're going to find? 20 00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:14,900 Thomas: Sure. So at Muhlenberg we do have classroom standards. 21 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:22,940 And that was started in the late 90s with the Moyer Hall project. 22 00:02:22,940 --> 00:02:28,550 At that point, there was a lot of bits and pieces of technology put in classrooms. 23 00:02:28,550 --> 00:02:34,790 So they really had a vision to unify classrooms on this campus at that time. 24 00:02:34,790 --> 00:02:37,460 So that started with what we have as the tech wall. 25 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:45,500 You'll notice those in many classrooms and they've taken on a life of their own over the since the late 90s. 26 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:50,120 And we continue to upgrade and refresh and recycle that equipment. 27 00:02:50,120 --> 00:03:00,810 But it is a base standard and we try to do that to help users because at Muhlenberg we don't assign specific rooms to specific people. 28 00:03:00,810 --> 00:03:08,690 So one classroom may have English in it in the morning and then a science class in there in the afternoon or a math class. 29 00:03:08,690 --> 00:03:15,110 So we really try to make the technology somewhat standard across the campus so that 30 00:03:15,110 --> 00:03:19,670 users will have a common experience when they go between different buildings. 31 00:03:19,670 --> 00:03:23,780 So the discipline for the room may be different, 32 00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:34,280 but the technology and the interface that the user will use to bring up their technology to interact with their technology is for the most part, 33 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,870 the same on this campus. So we use a pretty high end control system. 34 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:47,870 So a faculty member knows that they can go in and get things going, whether they're in the sciences buildings or they're over in the theater area. 35 00:03:47,870 --> 00:03:49,670 They're pretty standard that way. 36 00:03:49,670 --> 00:03:59,780 And it allows us the flexibility to add and remove individual components of that technology as the pedagogy and the end use of the class dictate. 37 00:03:59,780 --> 00:04:07,940 Jordan: Can we take a quick detour and talk a little bit about some of the rooms that have really expanded upon technology at Muhlenberg? 38 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:15,580 For sure, the Learning Commons. What was the process behind a space like that? 39 00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:23,050 Thomas: So the LC Commons was probably one of my favorite spaces at the institution, 40 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:28,120 the Language Learning Center at the time had been around for 30 years and it was 41 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:34,840 really based on the idea of students working individually in little cubicle areas, 42 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:42,700 listening through a computer or an audio cassette tape and then writing: a listen, write, and repeat model. 43 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:50,530 The languages department wanted to change that model and have more of a conversation based model as they moved forward. 44 00:04:50,530 --> 00:05:03,070 So we spent, we I say we myself and members of the language department led by the director of the lab, Luba Iskold, spent a year meeting with faculty, 45 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:11,920 meeting with students both inside of our community and taking road trips to is at nearby institutions that had learning centers. 46 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:19,480 And they really came up with this conversation model and wanted a highly flexible space. 47 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,250 So we started looking at what we could do in the footprint of that room. 48 00:05:24,250 --> 00:05:31,300 And we really came up with a unique idea of this, basically an open room with three different zones, 49 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:38,290 completely interchangeable furniture, and it allowed for lots of flexibility in what they were doing. 50 00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:40,870 And it just came out super, super cool. 51 00:05:40,870 --> 00:05:51,070 And we were allowed or we were afforded at the time to do some things that were outside of the style cues and the branding cues of Muhlenberg. 52 00:05:51,070 --> 00:05:58,600 So you'll see some unique colors in the space. You'll see some soft furniture instead of dedicated classroom furniture. 53 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:09,160 We have interesting lighting. We did some tours. We held the Northeast Regional Language Learning Conference a few years ago called NEALLT, 54 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,350 which is the North East Association of Language and Learning Technologies. 55 00:06:14,350 --> 00:06:18,400 They came to look at our lab and they loved it. So they held the conference here. 56 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,210 And we did a workshop on the design of that lab on the Friday (of the conference). 57 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:27,360 And everyone felt like they were in a Mac store. They're like, oh my God, this looks like we're at an Apple store. 58 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,570 It's so cool. How did you get people to allow you to do that? 59 00:06:31,570 --> 00:06:34,120 And it was really the hub of that conference. 60 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:43,030 And really we took the technology and infused that with the overall look and feel that we were trying to go with for that space. 61 00:06:43,030 --> 00:06:48,400 So they knew what they wanted to achieve in the way that they were teaching. 62 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,050 And we helped them realize that through the technology that is in that space. 63 00:06:53,050 --> 00:06:57,520 But it was truly a collaborative experience with the entire department. 64 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,930 The college kind of gave us free reign to do what we wanted to do with that. 65 00:07:01,930 --> 00:07:12,940 It was just a real success. We've used that space now to host many events on campus from our new faculty orientation to the digital brew, 66 00:07:12,940 --> 00:07:20,500 which folks that are listening aren't sure what the digital brew is. That's a collaboration between members of the digital learning team, 67 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:28,300 faculty and staff to introduce them to new technology components that faculty members are using in their courses. 68 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:35,500 It's a real a real fun event and we pair it up with beer and wine and can't wait to get back those days. 69 00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:42,140 Jordan: Yes. And shout out to Tony - craft soda as well at the event. 70 00:07:42,140 --> 00:07:44,840 So a lot went into that particular room, 71 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:54,830 but it seems like there's a lot of conversation and collaboration around creating these spaces and with a few new buildings going up on campus today, 72 00:07:54,830 --> 00:07:59,270 what are some of the key questions that you and your team are considering as you think about how 73 00:07:59,270 --> 00:08:04,740 to design these classrooms that will be available to students two falls from now. Thomas: Two Falls. 74 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:14,160 Jordan: So 2022, yeah. Thomas: So for us, as I had said a little bit earlier, it always starts with communication and conversations with the end user. 75 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:20,450 So we'll talk with the faculty and staff that are using these spaces and a lot of our new buildings, 76 00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:24,950 in particular the Parkway Community Building, that will be a mixed use building. 77 00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:33,230 So there will be some faculty offices, staff offices that will be the new home of the program. 78 00:08:33,230 --> 00:08:35,960 It will also have some classroom space in there. 79 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:42,740 So the first conversation that we always have is with the faculty and staff members that will be using those spaces. 80 00:08:42,740 --> 00:08:46,760 We do have campus standards for classrooms and for meeting rooms, 81 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:54,050 but we really want to understand how they're going to use those spaces so that we can design a package that will fit their needs. 82 00:08:54,050 --> 00:09:03,080 Because the last thing that we want to have them do is walk in there and be frustrated with or continually have to do the same thing like, 83 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,410 oh, when I go in there, I have to always plug these cables in. 84 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:11,510 Because you didn't think about running cables to the table and there's always a trip point. 85 00:09:11,510 --> 00:09:19,850 So we really want to understand what furniture is going in the space, how they intend on using the space, if there's flexibility in that space. 86 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:26,300 And a big key that we have now is are there any remote components in those spaces? 87 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:33,020 There's always a debate on college campuses about cameras in classrooms and what is acceptable. 88 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:37,640 And we're currently working on policy to help guide us on that. 89 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:44,150 There is a reality as we move forward that there may be, especially in the immediate future, 90 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:50,090 some students that can't physically make it into the classroom or aren't comfortable to be in the classroom. 91 00:09:50,090 --> 00:10:02,060 So how can we facilitate in these new spaces without changing the nature of the space or the welcoming, inclusive environment of a classroom? 92 00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:07,370 The last thing I want to do is shove a bunch of cameras in a classroom and then really get the 93 00:10:07,370 --> 00:10:11,810 students that are in there on a day that might not be comfortable with a camera while they're 94 00:10:11,810 --> 00:10:17,930 having these sensitive conversations or opening themselves up in a way that they might not 95 00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:22,170 normally be comfortable with and then have the concern that there's a camera in a classroom. 96 00:10:22,170 --> 00:10:30,170 So it's a delicate balance. And in the new buildings, that is something that we have to understand what this looks like. 97 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:37,010 Are cameras permanently mounted in there? Is there something that can facilitate it where there are cables run and a faculty member 98 00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:41,360 can on the days that they may have a student that can't make it into a classroom, 99 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:49,060 either request from my office or have their own camera, that they can simply plug in and get the class going? 100 00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:50,740 Jordan: You said it's a delicate balance, 101 00:10:50,740 --> 00:10:59,380 and I think that's such an important thing to emphasize because we have spent a little bit of time here talking about the physical spaces. 102 00:10:59,380 --> 00:11:07,120 But what we kind of want to steer towards now is how do we blend our physical spaces with online and digital learning? 103 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:15,070 And for example, this past spring, we had some students on campus and some that were remote students for the entire semester. 104 00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:18,340 And I'm sure we'll see something similar in the fall. 105 00:11:18,340 --> 00:11:30,670 So what are some of the ways that our physical spaces and your team can work with faculty to help them do these sort of hybrid multi spatial lessons, 106 00:11:30,670 --> 00:11:39,190 lectures, classroom engagements? Thomas: I'm thinking a lot about a space like Trumbower 130, which is our largest lecture hall, 107 00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:48,790 which we spent a lot of time working with faculty on ways that we can help them think about new ways to teach in the space. 108 00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:57,430 There is also a remote component in that space if needed, but it's really transparent to the overall physical in-class. 109 00:11:57,430 --> 00:12:03,940 So they have the ability to bring students in. But it is a traditional lecture hall. 110 00:12:03,940 --> 00:12:10,450 We've worked with some new technologies that allow folks to do some interactive whiteboarding 111 00:12:10,450 --> 00:12:16,270 and sharing of those lessons easily from the technology that's built into the room. 112 00:12:16,270 --> 00:12:24,430 So it's not an afterthought. It's not, if a faculty member is annotating slides on the boards in the front of the room. 113 00:12:24,430 --> 00:12:33,100 They can go ahead and share that. As we look forward here at Muhlenberg, everything has a digital component to it, the physical in class. 114 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:36,400 What's the first thing that people do when they get into the classroom? 115 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:43,600 They log in to canvas or they log into their email or their domain, or they'll bring up a program like R Studio. 116 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:52,780 And for us, it's finding ways to make that as seamless and easy as possible for faculty members to bring the physical classroom 117 00:12:52,780 --> 00:12:59,470 and those digital remote components together in a way that's not changing the way that they want to teach. 118 00:12:59,470 --> 00:13:06,250 When I first started here in the first few years, the technology wasn't consistent across campus. 119 00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:11,560 We didn't, we were working towards campus standards, but it became very frustrating. 120 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:16,450 And there was a lot of downtime for faculty at the beginning of a class as they 121 00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:22,480 struggled from building A to building B to try to get what they wanted to teach. 122 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,800 So that's why we worked very hard to get the classroom standards going. 123 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:35,410 It's trying to speed up. We do not want to ... contact time with students in a Face-To-Face classroom is limited. 124 00:13:35,410 --> 00:13:41,470 So we want to make sure that the technology isn't a barrier or taking away any of that contact time. 125 00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:46,480 So we want to make sure that faculty members can get in there and within one 126 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,260 minute they can have everything up and they can start teaching their class. 127 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:58,000 So that for us, that's a sense of pride. We take a lot of time to go through each of those classrooms between breaks. 128 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,840 We touch every single classroom twice a year. 129 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:09,250 We do a preventative maintenance to make sure that it is all up and running and anything that needs to be replaced is replaced. 130 00:14:09,250 --> 00:14:14,650 Anything that looks like it's worn or may not last an entire semester, it gets replaced. 131 00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:21,400 And the institution is very good at allowing us to do that with time and budget support to make sure 132 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:28,630 that class contact time isn't impacted by a budget that doesn't support replacing that technology. 133 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:31,000 Jordan: I think that's also an important note to make, 134 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:37,330 is that you all are working very hard to make sure that faculty, as you said, are not spending the first 10, 135 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:42,190 20 minutes of their time with their students trying to set things up, like you're trying to make it as seamless as possible. 136 00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:46,300 And I think that's probably one of the most important parts of pairing these 137 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:50,560 things together is the accessibility of it all and the seemlessness of it all. 138 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:58,870 So it doesn't become, as you said, very tech heavy and it still focuses on the pedagogical standards of the instructor and the classroom space. 139 00:14:58,870 --> 00:15:06,760 So it does kind of lead me to my final question, which is imagining where physical spaces go in the future. 140 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:12,040 So we know that there will probably be some online learning continuing to happen. 141 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,450 We know that there are always digital tools coming out every year. 142 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:21,640 And our own programs like our domain's program and even our use of things like VoiceThread and hypothes.is 143 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,750 have really exploded in the last year and we hope to see that sustained in the next few years. 144 00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:37,420 So where do you think these spaces are going? Or what do you see changing within physical spaces to help meet some of these demands? 145 00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:48,670 Thomas: It's funny that you say that because EDUCAUSE just sent out an article today talking about what the post- COVID-19 classroom will look like. 146 00:15:48,670 --> 00:15:53,740 I haven't gotten a chance to read it yet, but that is quite the debate on a daily basis. 147 00:15:53,740 --> 00:15:57,520 I have vendors and contractors contacting me saying, hey, 148 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:03,220 let's use your CARES [Act] money to make sure that everything is set for when the students return in the fall. 149 00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:10,720 And there's this tendency for folks to ram technology on you and say technology is the solution. 150 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:16,420 But I don't think technology is the solution for the classroom moving forward. 151 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:25,390 Muhlenberg is a private liberal arts residential college, and we pride ourselves on what happens inside of the classroom space, 152 00:16:25,390 --> 00:16:35,440 whether it be the digital with VoiceThread and domains and the physical classroom with the conversations and the connections that we have. 153 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:41,860 So I think it's always going to be important to continue to work in the classroom environment. 154 00:16:41,860 --> 00:16:51,400 But I do see a little bit more of a flexibility and an ability for faculty members to be accommodating of students or to change things up. 155 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,830 Like maybe they'll meet in the classroom two of the three days a week and then the third day of the week will be an 156 00:16:56,830 --> 00:17:03,850 online session where students can come and bring questions to the instructor and have some personal one on one time. 157 00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:09,670 So I don't think there's a one solution for every classroom and it's not going to be throw a camera 158 00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:14,960 in the classroom or this great auto tracking camera and then you're going to be able to do whatever. 159 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:22,990 No, I think at a place like Muhlenberg, it's still going to be that close contact, but I think there's going to be a lot more collaboration based. 160 00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:28,270 So I think that we're going to be looking at more flexible styles of classrooms where 161 00:17:28,270 --> 00:17:36,550 students can work in smaller groups and share that with the entire class as it goes through. 162 00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:45,160 Jordan: Thank you so much, Thomas. I hope that our listeners heard these three "Key C's" that I feel like you brought up: Care, Conversation, and Collaboration, 163 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:52,840 those seem to be so vital to the way that you and your team go about working in spaces with our faculty and staff. 164 00:17:52,840 --> 00:18:00,400 And I really hope that we can have you come back in the future and update our listeners on what this post- COVID-19 165 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,880 classroom does look like and the ways that our new classroom spaces are developing as well as construction gets underway. 166 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,450 So thank you so much for being here with us today. Thomas: This has been awesome. 167 00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:30,288 Thank you. I'll come back anytime. [* music plays *]