1 00:00:06,820 --> 00:00:11,560 (music intro) Jordan: Hello, everyone, and thank you again for joining us for an episode of Making Meaning. 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:19,180 My name is Jordan Noyes. Today I have the privilege of talking with some colleagues from Muhlenberg, Lynn Bello, 3 00:00:19,180 --> 00:00:24,970 who is an instructional designer here at Muhlenberg, as well as Jason, who is a faculty in GCE. 4 00:00:24,970 --> 00:00:32,410 Some of you may remember it as the Wesco School, but it has since expanded and grown to include certificates and master's degrees alike 5 00:00:32,410 --> 00:00:37,480 from people just continuing education to adults who may be looking for a second degree. 6 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:42,430 You name it. Anyone who wants to continue their educational journey. So let's start with Lynn. 7 00:00:42,430 --> 00:00:47,600 Tell us a little bit about your relationship and your role within GCE. 8 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:55,660 Lynn: Sure. So while, my position is formerly a part of the digital learning team, and while I report to the Dean for Digital Learning, 9 00:00:55,660 --> 00:01:08,470 who is Lora Taub in my role, I specifically support faculty who are imagining and building courses for online and hybrid learning within GCE. 10 00:01:08,470 --> 00:01:12,940 So I work closely with the faculty in the design process, 11 00:01:12,940 --> 00:01:25,630 and that includes periodic review of what they've built using a particular tool called the open SUNY Course Quality Review Rubric or OSQCR for short. 12 00:01:25,630 --> 00:01:33,390 Jordan: Thank you in. And Jason, same question. What do you teach and how long have you been teaching for GCE? 13 00:01:33,390 --> 00:01:36,100 Jason:Well, it's probably easier to talk about graduate in the graduate. 14 00:01:36,100 --> 00:01:43,480 I teach MAA508 in Applied Analytics Graduate Program, which is data warehousing and mining. 15 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:49,450 And in the undergraduate world, I teach mostly in the IS concentrations. 16 00:01:49,450 --> 00:01:56,650 Leadership IS finance and enterprise architecture and then their capstone and then do some other work 17 00:01:56,650 --> 00:02:02,920 within the supply chain and maybe a corporate strategy course within the business track for undergraduate. 18 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,520 As far as duration teaching, I'm right at 10 years. 19 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:12,330 So I was there prior to GCE. I was hired on when when GCE was the Westcoe School. 20 00:02:12,330 --> 00:02:17,790 And I'm also a Westcoe, so it's been very hard for me to make that transition to go from, 21 00:02:17,790 --> 00:02:22,770 you know, it's it's odd for me to to want in my mind is saying it's like being bilingual. 22 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:26,880 My mind is saying Wescoe, but I'm I'm articulating GCE. 23 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,850 Jordan: That's awesome. So you've been around the program for a while. 24 00:02:29,850 --> 00:02:37,320 You know, the ins and outs from sort of both perspectives experiencing it as a student, which is a really great thing to bring into your own teaching. 25 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:46,980 And then, of course, teaching. Jason: And I didn't realize this, but I started the in the Westcoe program in 2002, and it was really in its infancy stage. 26 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:50,100 And I don't know how many time, how many iterations they've gone through, 27 00:02:50,100 --> 00:02:55,600 but I don't think you could count on one hand the number of cycles they had gone through at that point. 28 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:02,960 So and I didn't realize its point. And then when it came back to teach it at the Westcoe School and started going to commencement, 29 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,630 saying I was kind of here from like when it really started. 30 00:03:06,630 --> 00:03:10,860 So I have watched the program grow and evolve. It's great experience. 31 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:15,930 I really love the Muhlenberg family. I love the GCE family and the entire campus. 32 00:03:15,930 --> 00:03:24,240 It's great to be a part of. Jordan: So you talked a little bit about watching Wescoe and then GCE go through iterations 33 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:32,340 and one thing that OSCQR, which Lynn mentioned encourages is iteration. 34 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:40,200 So Jason, as someone who has been part of the first online learning community and been teaching online for a while now. 35 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:47,760 How has your course changed or how has even your process of creating your course and teaching your course year to year changed? 36 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:53,760 Jason: I think the evolution is and OSCQR is huge because it's more than anything. 37 00:03:53,760 --> 00:04:03,540 It's quality assurance process. And whereas I'm maybe hopefully skilled at delivering content, presenting that content digitally 38 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:08,970 At first was a blind spot for me and I think the best way and I'm going to I'm going to cheat here 39 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:13,170 I'm going to read an email that I sent to Lynn after a course. really, 40 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:20,850 if I summed up my working relationship with Lynn and I mean, I really do appreciate the guidance I really like 41 00:04:20,850 --> 00:04:26,520 again, philosophical guidance and technical guidance from folks that can look into my blind spots. 42 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,920 And I'm I'm very appreciative of it. 43 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:37,710 And my whole reason to want to participate in this podcast was that hopefully some colleagues will see this and see the value gained from it. 44 00:04:37,710 --> 00:04:45,750 Because first of all, people like Lynn make me look good, and I know that's a really hard thing for people like Lynn to do as bright as they are. 45 00:04:45,750 --> 00:04:52,260 But ultimately, if I look good and I do a good job of delivering content, our student population is going to benefit. 46 00:04:52,260 --> 00:05:01,530 And if you look rearward into the last 18 months where we had a forced digitization of our learning environment, 47 00:05:01,530 --> 00:05:09,750 it was an imperative that the content we were putting online was not only consumable by the students, but somewhat comforting by them. 48 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:14,400 And that kind of goes to begin the comfortable nature of the learning environment online. 49 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,740 So I'll go with this note. (reading email) "Hey, Lynn, I had a great course thanks to your recommendations. 50 00:05:19,740 --> 00:05:23,280 Of particular improvement, thanks to you, in this course, 51 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:28,920 I did a weekly reflections discussion thread which allowed me to have an almost up to the minute 52 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:35,310 insight to where the students were having success and challenges. While the challenges can sting 53 00:05:35,310 --> 00:05:39,390 they serve to inspire me to work that much harder the next week to ensure that 54 00:05:39,390 --> 00:05:44,100 I provide more in-depth explanations of not only that which we are doing, 55 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:50,400 but why. The weekly reflections gave the students an opportunity to share their struggles and triumphs, 56 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,940 which is way more important than any validation for me. 57 00:05:53,940 --> 00:05:59,490 The final week reflections filled my heart with joy as the students shared that they not only 58 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:05,880 enjoyed the course but added the tools to their toolbox or artifacts to their portfolio. 59 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,940 So then I closed with Thank you for what you do. 60 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:15,150 Maybe that what you do or that what you did for me and your recommendations were key to my success in this course. 61 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:21,840 And I'm very appreciative of you." And I meant that, and I hate to know that someone in a course is struggling and good, 62 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:25,980 a good thing about adult students is they'll tell you when they're struggling, but sometimes they won't. 63 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:29,850 And it seems like a little thing to have the weekly discussion thread, 64 00:06:29,850 --> 00:06:37,320 but I've now implemented it in all of my courses at GCE just so I can have my folks that are taking the courses again, 65 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,660 give that weekly feedback to make that determination that yes, 66 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:46,200 everything's going great or no, there's some blind spots here that we need to or some dark places 67 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,150 we need to shine a light into. Jordan: I think that's a great metaphor, and thank you for sharing that email with us. 68 00:06:51,150 --> 00:06:57,720 I definitely want to come back to a couple pieces, specifically the weekly reflection discussion threads. 69 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,700 And also you said the words about the students knowing why they were doing the assignment. 70 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:11,870 So we'll come back to those. But first, I wanted to check in, Lynn how is it that you use OSCQR or how does OSCQR encourage iteration and 71 00:07:11,870 --> 00:07:15,410 Reflection, like what Jason is speaking to. Lynn: Sure. 72 00:07:15,410 --> 00:07:25,730 So OSCQR was created by the State University of New York or SUNY as a tool to help establish some consistency in hybrid, 73 00:07:25,730 --> 00:07:31,250 and online course design in the SUNY system across its many campus locations. 74 00:07:31,250 --> 00:07:34,760 And OSCQR is a free and open source tool, 75 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:43,790 and the way it differs from some of the other quality rubrics out there is that the review does not result in a numeric score, 76 00:07:43,790 --> 00:07:48,200 so it's not evaluative. Rather, it is developmental. 77 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:57,080 The results of a review include suggestions for areas where the course might be modified to improve the learner's experience. 78 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:03,140 So OSCQR is all about the learner's experience and also the amount of time that it may take the 79 00:08:03,140 --> 00:08:10,400 faculty member to make any of the modifications. in terms of how OSCQR encourages iteration, 80 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:19,160 The rubric itself is a set of 50 standards that really do inform online and blended course design at Muhlenberg. 81 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:25,220 But it also is this really great, it includes a great repository of helpful resources. 82 00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:31,250 So there are some videos that some of these SUNY folks have recorded to explain the standards, 83 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:36,860 and the tool also includes links to various resources and ideas that faculty can 84 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:42,380 implement and bring in to their course design. So through the review process, 85 00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:51,200 it's a conversation between myself and the faculty, and it opens up some areas to think about certain components of the course design, 86 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:57,290 where some modification might be changed to again improve the experience for the learner. 87 00:08:57,290 --> 00:09:04,250 And OSCQR is all about the course design. It's not about evaluating any faculty members teaching, it's all about, again, 88 00:09:04,250 --> 00:09:11,000 constructing a course that takes into consideration the experience of the learner. 89 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,410 Jordan: Thank you, Lynn. 90 00:09:12,410 --> 00:09:21,590 So thinking about the experience of the learner, I do want to come back to you, Jason, what you said about these weekly reflection discussion threads. 91 00:09:21,590 --> 00:09:31,730 What did those look like in your course and how do you feel students interacted with that space to build a community within your course? 92 00:09:31,730 --> 00:09:38,630 Jason: Well, the first couple of weeks were brutal (laughter). So it turns out that I don't actually do everything right. 93 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:43,820 But no, it was invaluable because again, these were the things that people were struggling with. 94 00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:51,170 But having it here really gave them the opportunity to, in some instances, vent because again, we've all been students at one point. 95 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:54,800 It can be frustrating, especially if the information isn't being presented. 96 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:03,680 What I really found with the weekly reflections is is it cultivated like an open dialog between myself and the entire body of students, 97 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:09,200 and they felt comfortable. And again, when people don't feel comfortable in a learning environment, 98 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,390 they may not speak up and share with you that, 'hey, I don't understand this concept, or 99 00:10:14,390 --> 00:10:16,460 I can't connect these two pieces.' 100 00:10:16,460 --> 00:10:23,750 But bridging that and making that comfortable environment not only will have them help me put together a great course for everyone, 101 00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:30,590 but it will also help them because it will facilitate that wanting to say, 'Hey, I don't quite get this.' 102 00:10:30,590 --> 00:10:34,310 So I really appreciate that it's very hard to get students to speak. 103 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:40,810 So the weekly reflections really provided a great balance. Jordan: I think that's such an important thing, too, 104 00:10:40,810 --> 00:10:48,220 because we can often think of online learning as being a space where maybe it's difficult to find community or, 105 00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:55,360 as you said, air a grievance or say out loud, I think I'm struggling with something that you built that into your course. 106 00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:01,480 And that's what's so important is you made a space and you recognized that this was missing and you were able to add it. 107 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,430 Jason: And I have Lynn to thank for that. With an endeavor like this, it brings those folks together. 108 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:11,690 They don't realize they're being brought together, and in the end, it benefits everyone involved. 109 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:18,470 Jordan: Yeah. The adult learning community is definitely a diverse community, and discussion is an important part of bringing them together, 110 00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:24,770 as you're noting and Lynn where are we seeing that within OSCQR? Why is this discussion space so important? 111 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:32,210 Lynn: Sure. Well, for adult learners, especially as we've been discussing, adult learners come from different levels of experience, 112 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:36,920 different levels of professional experience and expertize with the subject matter with the content, 113 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:43,160 and it creates opportunities for folks in the course to share their understanding. 114 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:49,580 So in any type of learning activity, including weekly reflective activities, 115 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:56,640 the learners are generating their own individual meaning of the learning content and then they're sharing that with one another. 116 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,100 So it's an opportunity to kind of harness the power of peer learning. 117 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:07,610 So for example, if I distributed an article for the four of us to read the meaning I make of that article 118 00:12:07,610 --> 00:12:11,870 maybe slightly different or even completely different than the meaning that you make of it, 119 00:12:11,870 --> 00:12:13,650 Jordan, or that Jason makes of it. 120 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:23,030 And so we're we're sharing that with one another, and sometimes there can be situations where unintentionally the instructor just isn't able to. 121 00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:26,510 Maybe there's some content that's highly complicated or complex, 122 00:12:26,510 --> 00:12:34,400 and the instructor hasn't been 100 percent successful getting across the learning that he or she wanted to get across. 123 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,410 And maybe there's only one student in that course who actually said, 'Oh, I get it', 124 00:12:39,410 --> 00:12:45,230 and they explain it from their own perspective in a way that resonates with their peers. 125 00:12:45,230 --> 00:12:49,910 That's kind of, I think a really great benefit is sometimes somebody can one of your classmates can 126 00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:54,350 understand something that you can't and explain it in a way that you can understand. 127 00:12:54,350 --> 00:13:02,330 And also, it's an opportunity for them to forge deeper connections with their peers in the course. 128 00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:05,810 And it also for the instructor, it's you know, what we call formative assessment. 129 00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:13,040 As Jason described in his great story, as he's reading every week what his learner is, our understanding of the content, 130 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:19,910 he can determine what part of his instruction wasn't getting across and then adjusting that accordingly, right? 131 00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:24,440 Realizing, Oh, wait a second, they don't understand this, so I need to end our next class 132 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,030 I need to explain this better the next time it informs the instructor and informs the teacher, 133 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:36,710 and it helps the teacher understand what shifts may need to be made in teaching so that learners are understanding better. 134 00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:42,980 Jordan: Thank you both for elaborating on this particular example how OSCQR works in Jason's course. 135 00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:50,870 Could you spend the last few minutes of our episode here talking a bit about the relationship between the two of you? 136 00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:55,100 How did you go about this OSCQR review? How did you communicate? 137 00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:59,360 How did that work between you for others who might be thinking about working with Lynn? 138 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,120 We're talking to Jason about OSCQR review. Lynn: Sure. 139 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:10,580 Well, actually, all graduate level courses are assigned an OSCQR review that I conduct, and that is something that you see leadership requests. 140 00:14:10,580 --> 00:14:17,570 And so what I will do is I will take a look at the course that's been developed and I'll take a look at the standards. 141 00:14:17,570 --> 00:14:27,680 It's a pretty lengthy process. One review can take me on average, between 10 to 12 hours, and I am very careful about the way I frame my feedback. 142 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:33,950 I am here to support faculty in a way that is developmental and not evaluative. 143 00:14:33,950 --> 00:14:38,030 OSCQR is not a checklist. That's not what it was designed for. 144 00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:44,090 We're not expecting or wanting OSCQR to constrain faculty in any way. 145 00:14:44,090 --> 00:14:51,920 We want our faculty to approach their online course design course, designed with agency and creativity, 146 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,740 and we don't want OSCQR to constrain that, but they are kind of a set of guideposts that can help inform. 147 00:14:57,740 --> 00:15:06,890 So after my initial review with the faculty, I invite them to have a conversation if they have any questions and I'm always available for follow up. 148 00:15:06,890 --> 00:15:12,650 Also, we have a number of instructional technologists here at Muhlenberg, 149 00:15:12,650 --> 00:15:20,030 and I'm thinking mainly of our newest instructional technologists by the name of Anthony Fillis. 150 00:15:20,030 --> 00:15:33,140 He was hired to specifically support members of GCE faculty when they are in need of assistance with canvas or voice thread, 151 00:15:33,140 --> 00:15:37,310 or any of the other digital tools that we use here at Muhlenberg. 152 00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:43,190 So Anthony and I work in close partnership. Jason, what do you think about that? 153 00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:49,010 Lynn: I agree with everything you said. And my advice for faculty is check your pride at the door. 154 00:15:49,010 --> 00:15:52,220 OSCQR provides an opportunity to identify that which can be better. 155 00:15:52,220 --> 00:15:57,590 You always think of correction as a rebuke, and I think many people were trained that way through all their lives. 156 00:15:57,590 --> 00:16:02,240 But it really isn't. It really does have the best interest at heart. 157 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,980 Take this opportunity. 158 00:16:03,980 --> 00:16:11,210 The fact that you have an instructional technologist who's willing to put in that time, but then for them to give you that value added, providing you 159 00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:14,780 with advice or providing you with insights, that's kind of like a hug. 160 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:21,140 I mean, it's it really is something to embrace. And I believe that is more faculty members do embrace this 161 00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:26,340 you're going to see the quality of of online content go up. 162 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:33,300 Jordan: Thank you both, for, again for joining us and helping people see what kind of relationships they can build to 163 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:40,980 as you said, Jason really take your course forward and offer the best student experience you can possibly offer. 164 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:46,960 So thank you Lynn for telling us a little bit more about OSCQR today and Jason for sharing an example of how it worked out for you. 165 00:16:46,960 --> 00:17:04,966 And thank you everyone for joining us for this episode of Making Meaning. (music outro)